Merging TSPRP into the Main Server

Operations Center
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What is the culture of TSPRP’s current server that you want to guard so heavily against “contamination” for?

Do you have any evidence of a pattern of caustic behavior that might result in potential fights? Any such fights would likely be actionable under the community guidelines, same with spam pinging someone because of an RP meme they would find objectionable. The vast majority of our users understand the distinction between IC/OOC and the nature of roleplay, and I am very much willing to bet that they would not feel a need to flame other users over something like that.

This has been a reoccurring theme but I have no idea where this comes from. I’ve been using the server for over a year fairly heavily at this point, and any fights that might break out are either civil arguments that don’t necessitate moderator intervention, or uncivil ones that received it. That doesn’t change with reintroducing a roleplay category.

Reiterating that if you’re being spam pinged or flame/flame baited in a channel, to report it to moderation immediately, but blocking users and muting channels are also options available.

That was included due to map checks and being able to maintain the role without needing to ping the rest of the team for it. I.E., it’s the current system, ported over.

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Setting aside Coco, there is a way to make this work without restricting the category behind a role. Discord’s onboarding process can populate a new user’s channel list based on their choices in the initial survey, and can also not populate it and would therefore be hidden to those users. We don’t have to restrict it behind any roles.

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Yeah. The more I think about it, that’s probably a step we should take regardless of whether we do this merge or not (even if it requires changing some things about our current process) — though particularly the TSPRP merge would benefit from having the onboarding stuff set up.

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And to @RobbyTheSeal - Henn mostly said what I wanted to say already. Is there anything specific that we (the team) have done (or not done) to shape your opinion in this way?

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What we currently have works well (and has served us well for years, thanks Em for setting it up), so I see a merger more like a way of “streamlining” or “defragmenting” TSP infrastructure. I’m not fully convinced that we will see that many new players joining (and there are probably other things we could do to make that happen as well), but if it happens after the merger, it’s a bonus. A merger would also mean that the mods and admins of the main server can help in dealing with severe situations when none of the RP mods are around. I would be in favour of a merger, but status quo is fine too.

There are many good points for and against a merger in this thread and I don’t have that much new to add to the discussion, just some tweaking.

Regarding category setup, I think the following would be a good starting point. And it seems there’s some room for adding a few channels later if needed.

#rp-mods (restricted to mods)
#map-managers (restricted to map managers and mods)
#rp-lounge
#conlanging
#pacifica-discussion (write-access only for roleplayers)
#pacifica-worldbuilding (write-access only for roleplayers)
#a1-0-discussion (write-access only for roleplayers)
#a1-0-worldbuilding (write-access only for roleplayers)
#aurora-discussion (write-access only for roleplayers)
#aurora-worldbuilding (write-access only for roleplayers)

I’ve left #wiki out since it isn’t used that much any more. #conlangig isn’t used that much either, but perhaps people who are interested in conlanging see the other channels and decide they want to join those too?

Roles:

  • Roleplay Moderator - Access to #rp-mods, able to moderate the category, preferably also able to manage channels, roles and emojis
  • Map Manager - Access to #map-managers
  • Senior Roleplayer - Cosmetic role
  • Roleplayer - Write-access, create threads. Masking would be done through and onboarding process or bot, right? Because as a mod, I don’t want more administrative work, it’s plenty already.
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This would be a good @Roavin question. I’m not sure what we would need to change on the forum to make accepted applications automatically mask users on the server.

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I generally support a merger, keeping in mind I’m extremely divorced from the RP community. Almost all substantive activity is good, that includes RP, and cross-over between parts of the community being easier is also good - for RP, the casual chat realm, the RMB, the government, etc., really for everyone.

Regarding the concerns about culture from TSP Main spilling over into TSP RP, I doubt this because (1) posters often respond to the norms of the channel which they are in and (2) I disagree with the exceedingly negative characterization of the TSP “Main” culture (I find the server to be very collaborative in OOC contexts, and that the IC conflict is by design).

I have a question regarding the “Roleplayer” role. If the role can be self applied (or bot/welcome portal applied), what is the point of making some channels read-only for those without it?

As an aside, I would love to see a welcome portal on our server.

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Currently my biggest question, and as far as I know the most important question left unanswered is what part of the government would oversee or work with us? Would those responsibilities fall to the Ministry of Regional Affairs, or as a significant part of TSP as a whole would we get our own Ministry?

I know we talked about this a bit, but if it was answered I must have been out for that part

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MoRA currently, for the future it will be whatever ministry oversees culture (or specifically roleplay) at any given time. It has always been this way, even when separated- when the MoC was still around, it managed RP on the government side.

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Would there be a way to tie a discord role to a forums role? Like if we automate a way to mark someone as a roleplayer when their plot request is accepted, would we be able to automatically attach the roleplayer tag to the discord as well?

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Even if there is, which I don’t think this is, roleplayers can roleplay before their map request is accepted as long as there’s no conflicts with other claims. Even if it’s a cosmetic role I wouldn’t see the point in this feature, especially when map requests take a while to be accepted due to the map managers being busy IRL.

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I’m just trying to figure out a system that works without putting more stress on the moderators. Maybe trusted members of the community, preferably senior role-players, could have the authority to grant the roleplaying role?

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I’m not sure if there’s any need to define or require any part of the government to work with RP, and vice versa. MoRA was originally split due to a perceived overburdening of duties and I don’t want to restart the culture of that going forward under an appointed cabinet.

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I think a “Roleplayer” role would be useful for pings and announcements. They aren’t too frequent, but we do have roleplay announcements sometimes — it would be nice for RP mods to have access to #announcements and to be able to ping roleplayers when those announcements come around.

I’m less sure of restricting access based on the role. I think it’s fine to make roleplay channels opt-in; honestly, I think I’d prefer that if I wasn’t interested in RP, but that might just be me. But I don’t know if we need to restrict access to those channels entirely based on a role. If someone isn’t sure about roleplay but wants to hop into the channel and ask some questions to see if they’d like it, I think we should welcome that; and I think the people who specifically join a roleplay channel will tend to be at least somewhat interested in it :stuck_out_tongue:.

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Glen and I have been looking at the ways to do this and principally, yes. It does mean everybody will have to link their Discord and Forum accounts, but I don’t find this to be particularly unreasonable.

I see no issue with that.

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I don’t either. Good way to link everything together, as well as (hopefully) open up some avenues for more forum/Discord integration.

Have y’all talked much about setting up Onboarding behind the scenes? We can get a separate thread started on that here soon if not, to hammer out those details.

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I think I must commend these so called ‘TSP-Mainers’. I’ve seen an openness to seek solutions that work for both parties which came a bit as a shock to the reputation given within the TSPRP community. I see a change in mentality and I say that’s exactly why it might be worth to do this merger. Especially now to capture that mentality and will to collaborate – which may not have been so visible the past years – to cement it into something more durable. If we proceed & work out a new lasting status quo which will be respected, that is the guarantee the TSPRP community wants for this merger to work.

Personally, most (if not all) of my concerns have been resolved. So long as we receive our dedicated channels, I think the merger has a lot of merit to grow the RP community. Especially since we’ve proven to not need 69 channels for separate topics. Additionally, Discord has evolved with features such as threads to mitigate the original need of a separate RP Discord Server in my opinion. (Primarily to ensure enough room for dedicated conversations related to RP.) By extension, the onboarding process through the Discord feature shown by Pronoun’s post will not only help TSP at large, but further increase the visibility of the TSPRP community. It would also be nice I think if it also could help bring clarity to what our RP community has to offer as well as its standards, which seems to be a growing concern these days.
I’ve eluded about this in another RP-related discussion which I’ll link here should you wish to get a better grasp of what it could mean for the TSPRP community.

As for the ‘TSP-Main vs TSPRP culture war’, I think it wouldn’t be as vicious as some people make it. Again due to new Discord features like the ability to hide channels, which in turn averts the risk of ‘cultural clashes’. Furthermore, I’d like to also add the fact that the TSPRP community shouldn’t be afraid to lose its culture. If anything, we’ve proven that we’d vehemently defend our existing culture. So really, I don’t see it being diluted to ‘TSP-Main culture’. I think the TSPRP community has created its own culture the past years, but I also don’t see anything wrong with said culture evolving more closely with the other side of TSP.

Lastly I’d like to also ask for the addition of two potential RP-related channels:

  • #worldbuilding: a general channel where anyone can discuss topics to worldbuilding which may not be necessarily limited to our RP canons as myself & other members have voiced their concern to discuss our writing projects with the community for feedback. The RP community has had the effect to inspire members to write their own stories and I think it’s only fair to grant a medium for discussion pertaining to those stories.
  • #design: a dedicated channel to showcase designs (flags, coat of arms, drawings, etc) made by members of the RP community. Previously we had such channels for each canon, but I think a general one could be beneficial and not interrupt certain ongoing discussions in canon-channels where they are now ‘forced’ to be placed.
  • Senior Roleplayer Role: potentially a role for the purpose stated in this post.
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I’d be curious to know if there’s any bite for using Discord’s Forum Channel feature as a catch all for all worldbuilding posts, or for other aspects too.

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It is done.

As an aside, I’ve updated the proposal in my OP to reflect some of the feedback that’s come in. If I’ve missed any or you disagree with a decision, please let me know.

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Honourable ladies and gentlemen,

I apologise for not speaking out earlier, but I do want to make it clear now, as a person who has grown attached to the TSPRP roleplay community (I play Besern on the Pacifica canon), I am totally and completely against the merger of the two servers, even if there is no baseline, rational nor concrete reason to why it shouldn’t happen.

I do know that there have been concerns about the RP community fading into a shadow of its former self, dying out, and they have been dismissed as speculations, so, here’s another take;

Here is a question, not to be rude, but have you heard of the proverb “if it is not broken, don’t fix it”? The status quo is very functional as it is; in fact very much so, for as a member of both servers, for example; I’ve grown much more affectionate (-ish, idk how you do this in an acquaintance or friend sense) of the roleplay moderators more than the main server moderators, because there is not much separation; we are of the same community, a ‘kampong’ or village spirit that lingers and vibrates throughout the server (which is also why I really also do appreciate my fellow roleplayers), something I can’t find in the main server with it’s “be a legislator or good luck entering a conversation” vibe I get. It just feels better bonding over a common topic in a separate, small space; like the much quicker harmony you get with being in a smaller class. We even screw around in the server (the_rules_of_war.txt thread in the #lounge, where we also do make roleplay references every now and then), and have fun together, even support each other (#spam is much more than just spam). Even though I’ve not talked and contributed a lot as of late for I’ve been very busy, I still am quite fond of my memories in the TSPRP server, and I’d prefer it if you don’t take it away from me, if not us.

Yet then again, I may be too selfish for my own good, wiping away any hope for efficiency and strong moderation in the fears of having an attachment to some random bits and bytes eliminated. My point isn’t even objective, so it’s invalid straight away in a logical sense! For that, even though I am totally against, I wouldn’t really put up too much of a fuss with the current plan to migrate if it goes through; I’d even tolerate eMc’s plan. I’d still be happy either way, after all, humans can be resistant to change at first. What I do want to appeal to the honourable ladies and gentlemen here, is this; is this really necessary?

Thank you, and my apologies.

(tl;dr I don’t understand how this is necessary at all, or what concrete benefits it’d bring at this time, also I reckon the TSPRP community is a legitimate community of its own, even when it’s connected to the TSP-main region.)

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An instance of the 2022 greeting card of the TSPRP roleplay community, commissioned by ikonen, a senior roleplayer (Huawan in Pacifica). I can’t find the completed version for now.

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The 2020 greeting card of the TSPRP roleplay community, also commissioned by ikonen.

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