Discussion on Limits for Artificial Intelligence

A1-0
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The Moderation Panel has come up with a proposal for @Galaxiel’s question, splitting the ais into four categories. This is NOT the final ruling, but rather a proposal.

Converted AIs
Biologicals converted into ais, such as the Cephalons of Warframe
Those who started their life as a part of the biological population of their nation will remain so even after conversion. Thus, the gain is the intelligence and ability of being an ai, and the loss is that for as long as they live they will take up a population spot for the rper. This also prevents people from bypassing the population limit through converted ais.

General AIs
The typical image of an ai, pretty self explanatory. An example would be the “Dumb” AIs of Halo
After some debate, we have decided that “general ais,” while likely more intelligent than a normal “biological,” aren’t going to be game breaking in the long run. Additionally, while the idea of tying it to the nation’s population seemed like a promising compromise, it would rule out ai-only nations, and so that idea was dropped. Our decision is ultimately to put no cap on general ais, with the understanding that anti-god-modding and consent rules apply (i.e. user discretion whether to roleplay with them, and in a nation with a ludicrous amount of ai the vast majority of them can be assumed to be very rudimentary).

Embodied AIs
Regardless of whether they started out as more “standard” ai or an intelligent robot, embodied ais are any ai that currently resides within an inorganic/robotic (i.e. not simply a computer), biological, or mixed body and is capable of switching hosts (either another body or a computer). An example would be Ultron from the Marvel Cinematic Universe
Going off of this, we don’t think we can distinguish between “AIs put into a body” and “Robots taken out of their body,” although it seems tempting to do so. Therefore, the distinction with robots in particular would revolve around the robot itself (whether it’s perceptive/aware or simply automated to unthinkingly do its tasks). At any rate, since there’s no limits on general ais, we don’t think it would make sense to limit the amount of ais capable of being embodied. But, as an embodied ai can (but not always) directly have more benefits over a biological, the amount of ais currently embodied in a star nation will be limited to 25 trillion. This is limiting, but not overly so, and compensates for the lack of a limit on general ais.

Hyper AIs
Hyper ais are ones that require/utilize such great computational power that they require a large amount of infrastructure, potentially even a megastructure, to properly function. An example, albeit one potentially not on the megastructure scale, would be the Warminds from Destiny
This is another situation where we feel we would benefit from a cap, but ultimately god-modding rules apply. If a roleplayer has an absurd amount of hyper ais, they could be classified as being of lower quality or actually higher-end general ais. Additionally, roleplayers can once again decide for themselves whether they feel the presence of or number of hyper ais in another nation are justified, and act accordingly. We are aware the community has had discussions about megastructures before the retcon, but as we never came to a conclusion on it we’re hesitant to tie a limit to megastructures.

-To reiterate, this is NOT the final ruling on what restrictions will be, this is a proposal and conversation starter-

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Would AIs of equal or higher intelligence compared to any ordinary biological sapient, who were also never biological and instead “born” as AIs, be part of the General AIs category?

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Higher, equal, or lower would be part of the general ai category if they were created as an ai, yes. If it’s too intelligent though, that’s going to be in the hyper ai category and need that extra infrastructure

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Oh yeah, I’m aware of that. I luckily have the whole transapient system backing me up on that one, ahah.
In any case, I have little to no problem with this. I’m actually very pleased.

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It’s probably a good thing that you asked this question, because before all we had was that Orion’s Arm thing to go off of, and I don’t like the idea of a major aspect of ai in A1-0 being dictated by a another science fiction site.

Byt yeah, just keep your ai population within reason and you’ll be fine

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I DISLIKE THIS CHANGE IMMENSELY!!!

/s /j, @Legend said nobody complained yet and I thought I would complain
On a real note this is fine by me and looks nice

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While this is already pretty perfect for me, I did have a question. What if the number of Converted AIs is always changing and flowing? In my case, embodied biologicals or sapient robots very often spend periods of time as converted AIs, but then return back to their regular bodies. Ofc there are also those that convert permanently, and those will be added as part of the population count, but what do I do for those who are just temporary?

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can AI run your entire system?

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I mean, that’s up for the community to decide, but I’d imagine the process of becoming an ai is quite permanent. For them to then be put back into their old body, they’d have to be an embodied ai. Also, as mentioned, converted ais are still a part of the population count, so even if the community agrees with temporary converted ais, they’d hold their population number throughout the entire process.

Sapient robots cannot be converted ais at any rate, as they start out as ais

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Yes, there are several star nations like that

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It is not permanent, no, at least not in the Terragen Empire. The mindstate is transferred over to the computing substrate and the body is kept in nanotech-assisted stasis, with full continuity of consciousness. The mindstate can then be transferred back to the perfectly preserved body whenever the uploaded intelligence wishes to. Of course, they can also go into a different body, biological or not.

Transfer between brain and substrate is achieved through neural implants that interface with the neurons directly and can connect to other computing substrates, by the way.

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To me, the process of being turned i to an ai seems like it would be very truamatic to the tissue. You’re removing the “mindstate” of a person, plugging it into something else, and then putting it back just fine? I don’t know, that seems a bit silly to me. However, I’m not the only person here, which is why I think it’s for the community to decide.

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I do not know what compelled you to use the term “silly”. Either way, yes, there is some damage done to the tissue during the process: as such, highly specialized nanobots are used to assist during the process, progressively repairing damage. Automated systems keep a constantly updated scan of the mindstate to immediately damage any damage, corruption or content loss. It is not a sloppy process, and is instead carefully planned out, each piece of technology used being specialized to the individual’s mindstate and brain structure. Destructive or duplicative uploading are things of the Terragen past: gradual continuous uploading has been the new norm for millennia.

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And to add to that, in a world where ships travelling in hyperspace, elf coded gods living in a different dimensions, and golden eyed people with a god complex releasing exotic energy, calling the Terragen Empire’s version of mind transfer “silly” is slightly lacking in consistency.

Were this fully hard scifi, then sure. But A1-0 is not that. At all.

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Look Galaxiel, I’m not going to fill this topic with a random discussion on how brains work. I just don’t see how one person is able to make the call on how consciousness works for everyone in the canon. If you wish to continue this discussion, please do it elsewhere.

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That is not what I was meaning to do. I am sorry if that’s the impression my replies left, but I was not trying to establish a common functioning for sapience in all A1-0. I was simply telling you how the transfer is done in the Terragen Empire, nothing past that.

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Connected to this: do sapient robots count as “species” then? I’ve been including them in my list of species, but given your last statement, I’m not really sure if they should anymore.

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Speaking for myself based off of this proposal, they would not, rather being embodied ais. I suppose that makes sense, as robots aren’t a species, they’re technology

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Ah, okay, I see. So, the 25 trillion of embodied AIs cap is on top of the 100 trillion, or part of it?

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I didn’t really get that in this first post. I should have asked it earlier, sorry lol.