Uhm heya!
When i got the ping i was 200% sure I would be on the list.
I have intent of starting roleplaying again, I was planning on huge expansions on the Wiki side by expanding the Andrendia side-pages, adding more details to the main one and other stuff.
Problem is… school and other activities started so I don’t have a lot of time.
I must confess, I wasn’t really active on the Nationstates side either, Andrendia briefly collapsed.
It was just.
I didn’t forget about it, I think about it a lot really, it’s in my opinion my best creation.
But… life has been… a bit tough so I didn’t have much time.
I don’t want to stop roleplaying, I don’t want Andrendia to disappear. I will try to put as much time as I can back into working on the Wiki side, and maybe even start actually roleplaying here in the Forum and on the Discord, thing I didn’t do much throughout the time I was part of the canon, I find writing stuff on the Wiki easier and more fun.
Tldr: Yes I still want to roleplay, I’ll try to find time between school and other activities to go back to being productive on the Wiki, Forum and Discord.
If you don’t have much time, just drop a message or two every now and then on the Discord or make a few small edits here and there on the Wiki. That’d be sufficient. Thanks for clearing up the situation!
*disclaimer 1: So first off, the following assessment is based on my understanding that permanence is granted to a nation on the basis of having a significant role in major roleplays that are critical to the collective Pacifica canon. If this is incorrect, then please tell me so that I can amend the list.
With that said, below is a list of all permanent nations with my opinions on whether they fulfill the necessary justification for being granted such status; nations whose status I partially or fully object to will be written in red.
*disclaimer 2: my assessments here have nothing to do with the roleplayer of any nation and are based solely on my views on whether I honestly believe that the nation in question is deserving of permanence on the basis of the criteria stated above.
Fully permanent nations:
Besern: It’s important in the Great War, so I can see why it’s here. No objections.
Bruuma: I haven’t personally seen anything from Bruuma that would justify permanence, in my view, but I believe that it is important for the Reizen Civil War RP. No objections.
Erinor and Sereva: I’m not entirely opposed to E&S having permanence, but I would also prefer to hear why it has permanence (and full permanence) when it’s afaik neither a major participant of the GW, RCW, or another major RP, nor critically important to another permanent nation’s lore. Propose removal or downgrade to referential permanence in the absence of a clearly identifiable reason for its status.
Ezervulge: It’s important to Sedunn’s and Stoinia’s lore, so I suppose that it’s fine in spite of afaik not really having much significance outside of that.
Frost Empire: Critical GW participant; no objections here.
Gianatla: Same as above.
Holy Free: Same as above.
Huawan: Same as above.
Ikoania: While Ikoania does have some significance to Ezervulge, I’m not totally sold on it being important enough to lock down a plot.
Kai Fa: I understand that Kai Fa is an RCW participant, but it hasn’t iirc done much outside of that; additionally, I have not heard of anything that makes its current location necessary to its lore or its lore significance to others. Propose to downgrade to referential permanence.
Karnetvor: Critical GW participant; no objections here.
Reizen: Critical to the RCW roleplay for obvious reasons.
Ryccia: Another major GW participant; no objection.
Sedunn: Same as above.
Snolland: Important for Hazelia and (afaik much less) important for the GW; full permanence is fine here.
Techganet: Already marked for replacement, as stated above.
Tekarai: Tekarai is already removed from the map, and for good reason in my opinion; it’s inactive, has no accessible lore on the wiki, and doesn’t really do much outside of the GW. Its location is not critically important to its contribution to that RP, so it should be downgraded to referential status.
Termina: Important GW participant with location-sensitive lore. No objection.
Transsuneria: While Transsuneria was iirc invaded during the GW, it’s not a critical participant in that RP nor does it afaik contribute location-sensitive lore to any other RP that would justify permanence (especially full permanence). Propose downgrade to referential status.
Ubesii: Minor GW role, but its location is significant to a fixed event in that conflict; no objection.
USI: Somewhat major(?) GW participant, but that’s all that I can think of; no objection, though.
Referentially permanent nations:
While I care much less about referential permanence because it doesn’t permanently remove plots from the map, here’s a list of nations that are CTE’d, extremely obscure (that is, I’ve never seen it roleplay or seen it mentioned in any meaningful capacity in currently canon forum or wiki content), and therefore not deserving of permanence by my judgement:
Erinor and Sereva had a brutal civil war which I believed shaped the modern geopolitics of Frastinia, along the RP’er behind the nation was apparently a VERY good RP’er.
Ikoania plays a part with Ezervulge AND Sedunn and thus led to tension between the two due to Sedunn forcing Ezervulge to release Ikoania.
Kai Fa played a crucial part in the RCW due to its location and thus needs to be kept around, also, it gets the very good RP’er Treatment.
Techganet should honestly stay, just smaller, I feel like removing them is a disservice to the RP’er who created Techganet.
Tekarai is fine
Transsuneria played a crucial role in the RCW as well, and it played a role in the GW, as its the reason Sedunn and Stoinia joined the war against the Gianlucians.
Beepee, Bzernleg, Resentine, Rebeltopia, North Prarie, and Omega have all played a major in many RP’s and have had a part in nearly all of the Veteran Plots(Sedunn, Ryccia, Gianalta, Huawan, USI, and others.
Scopia also played a part in Frastinia’s history, and due to being referenced so much in Nations such as Sedunn, Ryccia, and others, along with still being apart of IUFA, means they stay.
The singular reason for permanence being granted, as stated in the Pacifica map thread, is a nation’s status as being, and I quote, “too important to the community’s canon history”. Permanence should not be granted for good roleplaying, nor should it be done as a “service” to the receiving nation’s roleplayer.
Evidently not, seeing as how they’re not mentioned in a significant capacity anywhere on TSPedia and seeing as how none of them have been referenced in any conversations that I have heard regarding major RPs such as the Reizen Civil War.
Scopoa has just two mentions on TSPedia, neither of which are in a significant capacity, and IUFA membership does not function as an automatic referential permanence for participating nations.
I can’t find any mention of Ikoania’s role in the Sedunn-Ezervulge conflict outside of its initial release after Peter I’s War.
How? I’ve only ever heard that it participated; and if nothing that it did in that roleplay relied explicitly on it being in the exact location that it is now, then it can be made referential with no lore conflicts.
Its specific location is not, as far as I can tell on TSPedia, referenced in a manner that would make it critical to the Serevan War, making referential permanence the preferred status in the absence of further information.
Which is why, in the absence of any indication that said crucial role is dependent on their exact location, I suggested referential permanence. Full permanence should be reserved only for nations whose specific location is critical to the specific lore that justifies their permanence.
The Ref Perm Nations Wiki Stuff has unfortunately been erased by a Certain Triangle, Seal, and Waffle, never realizing the stuff they may be deleting be important to the Ref Perm Nations?
Also, Nations don’t have to participate in the RCW and GW to count for Permanence Sweetheart, Many are actually there to make sure Nations whose RP’er poured hours into aren’t deleted because a seal is mad that they don’t follow the rules(Rules can be bent), why do you think Kyles Nation still exists? Or Karnetvor, Huawan, Ryccia, and countless others who haven’t posted in years, yet still exist(Brumma, Kai Fa, and Puerto Pollo are REALLY good examples of this). Next time, look at the OLD Forums, find their countless posts and then realize why they are to kept on. (Honoring Players is quite common, why else is the Gulf Of Kringalia called that? Keyli is named after Kyle, why are Old RP’ers still apart of the canon? To Honor them, Activity and Having a wiki page isn’t all Important, jack a$$.
First of all, it would be nice to not just delete discussion points, which is why I undeleted them. The mentioned points were fair explanations taken from Discord chats and former announcements on permanent nations. I think it’s good, you two discuss these points, as it also gives us an insight on the thoughts for our current process of identifying permanent nations.
Thanks Rob for providing a critical assessment of the current permas. We will take them into consideration. As for how we define value for the canon using the example of IUFA: Having a statistical relevance to the IUFA was in fact a reason why some nations have permanence, however the vote on those was not unanimous the last time(s) either and is one of the reasons why we have that “referencial significance” category.
So I know that there isn’t actually an activity check being performed right now, but I’m posting this here since this is the only current thread that I’m aware of where discussion of perma-nation status has been performed.
I’d like to nominate Stoinia for full permanence status. I don’t believe that a general justification of the broader significance of Stoinia to Pacifica’s lore would be necessary here because it is already recognized as deserving of referential permanence; the primary justification for this status upgrade is therefore that Stoinia’s historical role as the Tolosan Republic, on which the histories of Spiras, Livana, Pelinai, and other some Mediterranean nations are partially based upon, is dependent on Stoinia’s current geographic location and therefore requiring of full instead of referential permanence in order to maintain adequate lore preservation.
