So, this thread will be used to discuss the Denvari/Emeraldian Colonial Empire
As Of Right Now, this is what I have
Lets Discuss, and feel free to maybe add to this.
@Weisserstein , @Ryccia , @im_a_waffle1 , @RobbyTheSeal , @Qwert , @Frost , @Fatiniyah , and @LordGianni . I’m pinging you all so that we can discuss the currently Possible Denvari/Emeraldian Colonies(which are the ones in Off Blue). I’m not pinging Galaxiel due to existing tension, and both of us no longer wishing to collaborate in anything.
Now, I want to make it clear that most of these colonies would’ve likely had some form of Denvari Colonists, with the amount depending on the location. Some territories, such as the Claimed “Spirasian Frontier”, is an area where the Denvari never Held control, but still claimed it regardless.
Pretty much all Colonies would’ve ended in 1683 following the Denvari Revolutionary Wars, with some exceptions. Currently, there are only three Emeraldian Colonies, two of which are Canon(New Emral and Ny Colradia), and the other is Suvia, which would’ve been lost around 1787, but is currently just a proposal. If anyone else could think of some possible Emeraldian Colonies, that would be greatly appreciated. It would also help if I could get a possible time period for when the Denvari held control of Government Island.
The Thestilvan colony ending in 1683 looks good to me.
If I can see it correctly, then no area controlled or possibly controlled by Gianatla is marked as off-blue. As such I don’t have any comments at the moment.
It is still open, if there might have been some kind of overarching conflict between the older and newer colonial empires (Austra, Stoinia, Gianatla and possibly the Denvari), but that wouldn’t change anything at your current plans. If anything, it would add to the lore, why colonies existed where by whom.
The discussions for such a “Great Colonial War” or “Pacifican Conference of Berlin” have not started yet and due to knowing my schedule and the current insecurities created by the map managers not having decided fully on the perma nations yet as well as some roleplayers questioning their future participation in roleplay, I’m not sure those will start in the near future.
I brought you on since you are a RP Moderator.
When did the colony in Weisserstein start? asking because I can’t see the text in the image
As for the end of it, it may have ended earlier than 1682. By that point all of Weisserstein would’ve already been under Gianlucaland’s grip
1512
(Why does the forum downsize the image?)
Well, that would mean the Denvari would arrive before the Gianlucians did, so its possible. Though, considering how a good portion of Lowenia at the time would’ve already been under the control of local lords, princes, counts, dukes, and other titles, the colony might’ve not been that large
Alternatively, the colony could’ve been one of the many kingdoms in pre-Gianlucian Weisserstein at the time, which would help it fit in with the rest of Weisserstein if that makes sense. When the Gianlucians came knocking, the colony got annexed and gifted to one of the Gianlucian allies in the region
When did the Gianlucians Arrive?
Hmmm… @LordGianni , I think we might need you after all.
Maybe,
So the Denvari Arrive in 1512 with the assistance of their Cimbrian Allies, and wishing to establish a trading outpost in Cordilia for the Denvari Empire, subjugate the area shown in the map, creating the Gyrsari Colony(Gyrsari roughly meaning Gulf Land), alongside creating a special title for the area, the Principality of X(Name to be determined), which would be held by a local collaborator on the basis they marry a Denvari Noble. Eventually, the Gianlucians arrive, and aren’t exactly very happy about the foreign presence, but they aren’t very sure who the Denvari exactly were, having only heard rumors about them from the Sedunners and Stoinians, with the Cimbrians only declaring that they had discovered a continent south of Bailtem. As such, Gianlucia would try and establish relations with the Denvari in hopes of negotiating away the Denvari Colony. By the time relations were established, it was clear the Denvari wouldn’t budge. However, it was negotiated that if the Empire were in anyway going to let go of the colony or if the colony collapsed or its prince was left with no heirs, the Colony would be granted to the Gianlucians. In 1683, following the utter collapse of the Denvari Empire, the treaty would honored by the Colonial Officials, with the Prince agreeing to come under Gianlucian Control. Later during the Nobles War, the area’s Denvari-Alman Population and the prince would support William I. Today, the area has a notable Denvari Minority.
Does this work (@Weisserstein )
That could work. The colony would’ve probably been given to whoever was the ruler of Lowenia at the time, since that would also help explain why the Gyrsari lands today are under the Crown of Lowenia.
One major side note though, the Denvari nobility would’ve probably had to convert to Christianity (specifically Catholicism as that was and still is the main Christian denomination in the “Land of a Thousand Crowns”) to marry into the nobility at the period, and much of the Denvari population would’ve also been converted as time went on (especially since iirc Gianlucaland imposed some strict religious laws which also disproportionately affected the Muslims in next-door Khatab.)
Sure, I imagine the Religious conversion would’ve been fine, since the Empire allowed Freedom of Religion.
Alright, gave this a second read and noticed something. Does this mean the peninsula would only become part of Province of Alemannia after the Denvari collapse?
Yes, is that a problem?
Also, Denvari Immigration to the colony would be rather minimal, but still noticeable. The Almans living there wouldn’t be replaced, as a matter of fact, most of the Denvari would eventually Almanize, essentially creating a hybrid culture.
That might have some complications since I planned for Weisserstein to be entirely under the Gianlucian banner by 1530. However, I did have this idea for a solution that may or may not appease both parties:
The Principality enters into a personal union (well, not fully personal since from what I’ve read, the Principality’s rulers would be separate from the Denvari Empire’s) with the Denvari Empire, however it remains part of the Gianlucian Province of Alemannia (obviously, this sounds extremely complicated, I’ll try to flesh it out better when I have time). So, while the Denvari has some jurisdiction over the principality, it remains a sovereign member of the Province of Alemannia.
I guess a good example from IRL (and my inspiration for this solution) would be the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg after the Napoleonic Wars. It was in personal union with the independent Kingdom of the Netherlands but is also a part of the Austrian-led German Confederation. Obviously, its not a perfect parallel, since unlike the German Confederation, the Province of Alemannia was a province of Gianlucaland.
I guess, it would be best to also wait for @LordGianni to give his thoughts on this as well.
Well, let’s read the section in the linked Wiki article again. It outlined the following timeline, which was approved of in discussions between Weiss and me:
For 1548, I can change the wording in the article regarding when all of Weisserstein was Gianlucian-controlled to “almost all historically Weissersteiner areas lest the x peninsula controlled by the Denvari”. So we could implement TEM’s proposal plus adding some kind of dispute, maybe even limited warring between us over hegemony of neighbouring dukedoms in the territory of Weisserstein, which ends in the aforementioned agreement, that the Denvari can keep their peninsula until further notice.
Now I don’t know, where the 1530 date comes from. I think I only mentioned before, that I wanted to have some sort of control over Weisserstein before 1530, so it fits with my timeline of conquering parts of Bailtem, but we already established that by us making the Lichtenburg area a vassal in 1524.
Ah, must’ve gotten my years mixed. Though I’m not against turning the peninsula into a zone for petty conflicts between the two big empires in Weisserstein at the time, I’d like it if possible for all of Weisserstein to have been at least partially integrated with the Province
Alright, brainstormed this idea, what do you think @LordGianni @KingTEM
